silversolitaire

LOL! That's okay though! Yes, it certainly depends. I was discussing this last night with friends and a lot of them said "Well, if I'm a God why can't I just make the damn object?" or "Well, shouldn't a God be willing to provide for his followers?" And so forth. So yes, it makes sense! ^_^

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boixboi.livejournal.com

In theory, as a God, I should have enough power to take this item from this guy without harming him.

Assuming I already knew what the favor was, I would grant it to someone who surrounds him in his daily life who is deserving, instead of him, after informing him that no, I would not be forced in this manner to grant my favor to those who have happened upon that which I need.

I would, however, repay him some equivalency for what I had taken from him, if the object were of such value.

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That's a very good idea, yes. Maybe I shouldn't have said "Destroy the house to put him into his place" ^_^;. Guess I wanted to make a point in saying that if you pick this answer you consider the human's behavior ungrateful or disrespectful. But yes, of course it'd be possible to just get the object against the guy's will without causing much damage.

I very much like the idea of granting the favor to someone else. That teaches the human not to demand from a God, yet it shows your greatness. Yes, very nice.

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equalrites.livejournal.com

Take the object and make them forget they ever had it. Grant them the favor anyway if it's reasonable, do some other good thing for them if it's not.

~Laurie

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Aha! So you're leaning towards Answer C, but without the punishing aspect. *nods* Yes, I see. So, you'd still insist on your Godly power, but without the punishment aspect.

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krylon-junkie.livejournal.com

I voted "other" because as a god(dess), everything belongs to me anyway. Gods don't "need" offerings, but they're symbolic of putting our trust in and giving thanks to our chosen deity. Since the guy was so stingy and actually thought he could barter with his goddess, I would try to teach him a lesson.

You know, I am seeing a direct correlation to myself here...*remembers it's Monday*...yipes! Gotta go!

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Oh, please continue! What correlation?

And yes, that was my idea as well. The notion of being bartered with. IMO, the believer shouldn't question or second guess a God (or Goddess, I'm just using God here for simplicity), but instead gladly fulfill whatever request it is. Asking for a favor in return is okay, as long as it's respectful. Such as "Here is the object you ask for, My Lord. Now that I have given you this, would you be so can as to..." Stuff like that. I just think this is the essence of faith. To not question or barter, but to just do it. After all, God has granted you everything, so if for once you're asked to do something in return, wouldn't it be really ungrateful to try and barter?

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krylon-junkie.livejournal.com

Oh, I just promised Eleggua that I'd take him somewhere since I can't give him anything decent yet, and it was late when I wrote this.

I think intent plays a big part, too. I think it's ok to ask your god to give you something that you need, and then promise to do something for him when you get it. What is not ok is to make demands, ask for more than you need, or think God is going to give you everything and therefore you can lay around and do nothing. But when you give an offering, you shouldn't be wondering what you're going to get in return. Come to think of it, if everyone could give without thinking of payback, the world would be a nicer place.

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andro-chan.livejournal.com

Pretty much find out what he wanted, if it's resonable then do it and take the object.
In another matter, if you're god, wouldn't you just be able to create a copy of it? =x *shrugs*

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*scratches head* Where did my answer to this post go? I could have sworn I posted it along with the otheres... Odd... Anyway: *reposts*

Well yes, but wouldn't it be disrespectful to barter with a God? ;p

And as for copying the object, some things just cannot be reproduced, such as spells, blessings or charms. Like, if THIS was the first stone that built a temple, the this is it. This stone only. Of course you could make an exact replica of it, but it wouldn't be the first stone. You know?

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tzarohell.livejournal.com

what's the use of a god if you can't barter with him/her?

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*giggles* Well yes, true! But doesn't a God deserve the respect to not question an order? If you want to take the hardcore religious approach, then God has granted you everything you possess and having the chance to show your graditude one-on-one would be a great honor. Why waste it by coming off as a greedy little bastard? Besides, it's a situation that needs to be carefully considered. Maybe the God would be pleased that you followed the order immediately and grant you your heart's deepest desire? But when you enrage him/her by putting conditions on it, maybe he/she will just go "Okay, here you go, take a million bucks" and poof and never bless you again? See? So many options! ^_^;

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tzarohell.livejournal.com

in my belief system, gods have very human hearts/minds. And I believe that while being a sniveling, subordinant underling is a good thing, it should also be good to gain the respect of a God by treating him/her as an equal.

So if I was a God, and came accross a person who treated me as any old fellow who just happens to have omnipresence and whatnot, I would humor them with the barter. After all, I *am* a god, I can afford it. I mean, what a brave thing to do! Maybe I would make the person my buddy and chat him up again sometime.

So that's why I chose #1. hee.

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kmazzy.livejournal.com

god me would take the object when he's not looking and replace it with one that looks the same, that is if the object he had had some special power.

does the guy not worship this god? cos if i was the god and someone who worshipped me wouldn't be kind and give me something i needed i would be miffed.

i could go on for ages about this. but can i ask why you're asking?

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LOL this is a rather fascinating topic, IMO. Tom, Sabby and I have discussed it for a long time last night *g*.

Replacing it, good idea! That was also the question raised. Why can't I just make another object when I'm a God? And I said some things cannot be reproduced such as blessings or charms. So this is why it would have to be THIS object. Besides, who is this mortal to think he can question a God? If the God wants that stone there, shouldn't the mortal just go "Yes Sir!" and hand it over?

And that was exactly my idea. If I am THE GOD and this is one of my followers, then I'd expect him to do as I say since I'm showing him enough grace when I deem it reasonable. So that's why I chose "Destroy the house to put him into his place!" ^_^;.

I'm just asking out of theological curiosity, really! ^.^

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kmazzy.livejournal.com

if i was the god i wouldn't destroy his house, i'd more likely make him feel really guilty and ask him to show he actually loved me by doing good deeds for other people.

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That's a good idea, too! Maybe I'd do that instead of giving in my petty urge to destroy his house! XD

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kmazzy.livejournal.com

destroying his house would just piss him off and it would waste energy. making him do good deeds would be more productive. i am very pro-productive and anti-destructive.

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fleurrochard

And I said some things cannot be reproduced such as blessings or charms. So this is why it would have to be THIS object.

Hmm, but when I'm a God, why wouldn't I be able to reproduce blessings and charms, too?
*curious*

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Because that's the whole point of a blessing or charm. It's unique. If you look at many instances in mythology you will often find that a God or Godess could not reproduce or undo a blessing or charm once it has been given. Take a very present example in the Bible for instance. Jacob cheats his brother Essau for the blessing of his forefathers. This blessing was given to Abraham by God and has been handed down to the first-born ever since. This was a unique blessing and could not be given again. So, when Jacob, the second born, fooled his father into give him the blessing instead it could not be reversed anymore. God couldn't interfere and say "Hey, this isn't your blessing!" and bless the other son instead. He had to accept it.

I guess this is what makes a blessing special, you know? That it cannot be reproduced just like that. Otherwise it wouldn't mean anything. Of course, there's always the notion of "charging" an object with a blessing. If you have a blessed object or artifact and touch another to it, then the blessing may also charge the other object. But it's still the very same blessing and it cannot be reproduced, only handed on.

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fleurrochard

Hmm, yes, that's true.
That does show, of course, that God is not almighty, because then he could reproduce it.

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The power of a God must have its limits eventually and if it's just his or her own power that limits it. Otherwise it'd be a perpetuum mobile, wouldn't it? *g*

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fleurrochard

Ah, yes, the old paradox. Can God (who is almighty) make an object which he can't lift? If he can't, then he is not almighty, because then he could make it, but if he can, then he isn't almighty, too, because then he could lift it...
*g*

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yes he can, cause "God" doesn't roam around the land, lifting objects directly.
but he can make let's say a boulder. and then make a little boy, who has no chance to lift it. and then make Hercules (or something alike anyway).
so God makes objects that he both can and cannot lift. ;p

there's a better one.. can God make 2+2=5?
and you know, he's marvelously inventive.. yes, he can. in a schoolboy's math mistake.

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and isn't it?
i mean, where is everything coming from?

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nico-sels.livejournal.com

I'd just take the object forcefully and leave the guy be.
what's the use of being a god if your followers can't even have respect for you.

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Are you saying that your followers would lose their respect for you if you destroyed their house or that they obviously don't have respect if they don't follow your instructions?

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nico-sels.livejournal.com

no what I meant is if a follower blackmails (cause that's what it is) his own god, he obviously has no respect. so that's when I as God would punish the follower by taking it forcefully and giving him nothing in return. I would grant him his favor if he gave the special item to me, but not on HIS terms.

I so know what kind of a god I would be, I played 'black&white' for months. Of course in the game being a god is also a struggle, it takes tactics and alot of hard work. it's from this perogative that I answered to that poll. not FROM MY HEART. :)

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LOL! Okay! Gotcha! ^_~ Well, you can answer the poll anyway you fancy ^_^.

And yes, I see we're on the same page mostly. I also oppose the idea of my follower trying to blackmail me which is why I'd probably feel tempted to destroy the house ^_^;;. But Kei had a better idea. She'd make the human feel guilty and show him his greed. Yes, that seems a better way for a God...

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why are we always talking about "followers"?
followers usually follow from one of two motives.. fear or reverence. or both combined.
now, in the latter case, i doubt there would be any problems getting the object. in the former case i doubt it as well.

but what about if that ominous sacred uber-important object was in the possession of a dialectical materialist, let's say Karl Marx himself, who would spit it flatly to your face that you go and sod off cause you just plainly don' exist.
would you burn his house? and why, when you created him with the freedom to believe any bullshit he wants?
or why would you burn the house of the poor vermine who'd want to barter with you, when you created him with the freedom of being as greedy a little bastard as he wants to be, in the first place?

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I just chose "followers" for lack of a better word. I probably should used "subject" or something like that, but I didn't think of that then.

And yes, I see your point, but I still stick to the belief that God doesn't participate in everything we do around here. He/she may have created everything, but after that they are left to their own doing until God decides to interfere again. Hence, even though God may have created people with the ability to say "You don't exist!", it doesn't mean he/she originally intended that to happen. Also, I don't think that choosing not to believe in some Supreme Power immediately frees you from its influence.

I think it's a bit of a cop out to say God can't disapprove of something his/her creations do, because he/she surely must have created them that way. I don't think it works like that.

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well, if God created people with the ability to say "You don't exist!" (which apparently seems to be the case), it means he/she intended for the possibility of that to happen.
thus if that happens, is it ok for God to be pissed off and rage and take revenge or punish or whatever? that's just plain vicious.

>>>Also, I don't think that choosing not to believe in some
>>>Supreme Power immediately frees you from its influence.
certainly. i never implied that. if you don't believe in radioactivity, it doesn't mean you won't get radiation sickness.

>>>I think it's a bit of a cop out to say God can't disapprove of
>>>something his/her creations do, because he/she surely must have
>>>created them that way. I don't think it works like that.
the question is if "God" does approve or disapprove of anything at all.
but let's say.. if you make a house of wood, and then invent termites, and then the house gets infested, do you start to disapprove of the house and curse it? YOU built it! you could have made it of marble too.

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Hmmmm... *rubs chin* Ah yes, I see your point now. So you're saying if God gave humans the ability to choose not to believe in him/her, then it must meet his approval since he could have made them not capable of it. Okay yes, but still, maybe it still wasn't his intention? I see now that it'd be unfair to be mad at them for developing in a different direction, but it might still not have been God's intention to happen. *rubs head* Oh dear, this is a paradox...

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I would grant the guy the favor, because the guy is as important as I am, and "with great power comes great responsibility" and care for your subjects.

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Yes, that is true. As a God you have great responsibility. But isn't the subject rather ungrateful to try and barter with you when you're asking for something, whereas the subject might have to qualms with turning to you in prayer everytime THEY need something? Are you a God or a servant?!? :-P

(I'm just trying to encourage discussion here! I'm not making fun of you, of course!)

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(I know =))

You have a point, and the truth is that if I were a God I would be a servant. =) I would be very occupied to use my power to aid the people in everything they ask. As a God I would have infinite wisdom so I would understand that people are petty and they barter and I wouldn't mind that. =)

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Oooh I see. So you'd be the merciful God who loves and understand all his/her creatures.

Ah, mythology, gotta love it. So many different types of Gods. The greedy God, the selfish God, the cruel, unforgiving God, the loving and just God, the merciful and understanding God... It's interesting to see which approach people would take!

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Yes, it IS interesting, and you had a very interesting idea with this poll. For instance, I simply reject the option about taking the object forcefully and ruining the guy's house in the proces too. =)

But after all, who knows? I have never been God, maybe I would do that. I don't know myself THAT well. =)

I just said that I would be a merciful God because I paralelled the situation with my adminship at a forum. I tried to serve the people all the time and respond to their complaints.

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Ah yes, but you see being a human in a powerful position is different to being a God. As a human you can always lose your power if you don't treat your "subjects" with dignity, because the power you have is only given to you through the people who accept your higher position. If they cease to accept it you lose your power. However, if you're a God you have complete power. Everything exists because you allow it to exist or you made it. You do not depend on someone's benevolence. They could all fear you and you'd still be far more powerful than them. But of course, then you wouldn't be a merciful God anymore ^_^;.

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It's true that. You would have absolute power over them. But I think even God has to answer to a greater God, somehow. =) I just fancy the image of the merciful God. Maybe because this is how I want my God to be. Maybe when you are God you think differently. I think a God who used to be human could be more merciful than a God who never was anything less. Or could be more cruel, depending on the human.

This all makes me think of "Bruce Almighty", the movie I haven't seen yet. "God for a day." The first thing Jim Carrey does when he is granted godly powers is enlarge the boobs on his wife. lol =)

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>>>If you were a God
well, first of all we'd have to define the term as to what my (God's) position in the universe is, what my powers and my perception of the world (and its inhabitants) are. (that's only a few to name.) for no doubt, all that answered this poll have a different idea of the meaning behind the word.

>>>However, if you're a God you have complete power.
>>>Everything exists because you allow it to exist or you made it.
so this gives us an idea then.
but in this case the situation "If you were a God and needed an object which is in the possession of a human" would never occur. ;p

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>> but in this case the situation "If you were a God and needed an
>> object which is in the possession of a human" would never occur. ;p

XD! Well yes, but I subscribe to the believe that a supreme being has created everything and still partakes sometimes, but certainly doesn't bother with every single thing happening "down there". So it might happen that this artefact was created by God, but then somehow was lost and moved here and there (pretty much like The One Ring) and now has fallen into the hands of this human. That's possible!

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and i subscribe to the idea that a supreme being IS creatING everything.
thus, if I'm God (and now seizing on your One Ring reference) both Sauron and Frodo (and all the other critters in the story for that matter too) are but particular expressions of different combinations of My inherent qualities in a play I play for My amusemet.
and if I intend to bring forth a particular futuredesign concerning the fate of the One Ring, I can arrange for it through altering the state of affairs (lets say by introducing a new element/character with his own unique incentives, or just changing a few variables like the direction of the wind or you name it) thusly, that it then subsequently results in the desired outcome.
(you know, like.. if a hedgehog runs across the street in front of you while you walk home in the night, how does it change the now-moment - thus the future too - and what cascade of events it triggers?)

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