ah, now i remember.. it's not your everyday psycho-thriller, it's supposed to be a farce-like sketch or sketch-like farce of the farce that is the American upper-class way of life. plus i liked the interiors and the actor..
I think the trick isn't that it's supposed to be criticism of the yuppie society, which is pretty obvious, but...
Do not read any further if you haven't seen the movie yet and don't want to get spoiled!
Is it real? Did it all just happen in his head? Is he just having all these violent fantasies while he's forced to live a life of "fitting in" and trying to be better than anybody else? This is also what's confusing me so much.
The more I think about it, the more it clears up for me. I mean, that DOES make sense, since he often so openly committed his crimes and nobody ever says anything. Like when he drags the bodybag through the squeegee clean foyer of his elegant apartment, leaving a long trail of blood. That's not very clandestine, considering he just killed a colleague AND later has a detective on his ass who definitely would have found out about it and yet it's never mentioned again.
I've heard other people say that in his society people would rather let you get away with murder... multiple... gruesome...excessively violent murder... than acknowledge someone is breaking the rule or acting against the norm. Somehow I find that hard to believe. So maybe they'd ignore minor offences, but NObody would just shrug off such a serial killer's confession as a joke o.o. And certainly, that lawyer had to reason to cover him by saying he had dined with the victim twice in London.
If you think about it, his delusion is pretty appartent. Like when he freaks over these business cards. I mean, excuse me! They all look exactly the same! Okay, this one has a little different shade of white, the other one's got a structure, but GEEZE! They're all exactly the same! And yet they act as if whoever shows his card next has a better one, something that's a lot more elegant and impressive! *rolls eyes* And they all read "Vice President" XD. Oh! And of course all the threats he says to people and nobody ever hears! "You're a fucking ugly bitch and I want to stab you to death and play around with your blood." So, yeah, maybe she didn't hear him, but somehow this is a rather risky thing to say! And he says it all the time in all sorts of situations and nobody ever really reacts to it!
Also, did you notice how everybody kind of ignores Bateman? They don't know his name or they confuse him with someone else and every time someone talks about Bateman they say he's the lamest, most ordinary and boring person they've ever met. However, the Bateman we get to know in the movie is suave, handsome, fit, fascinating, slick... who could ever say he was ordinary? So that too makes me think that he's probably imagining this all. He's probably just as boring as everybody thinks he is (look at his friends! Apart from Price they're all dorks!), but in his head he becomes this man for all seasons.
I've also read that in the novel (which I'm kinda reluctant to read) the violence is a lot more graphic and the reader is left with a feeling of horror and disgust since Bateman doesn't offer any justification or motivation for his actions. Unlike in the movie where Christian Bale perfectly portrayed all these pent up emotion and frustration of always having to be self-controlled. But in the book you never get to know this, so it makes even more sense why he's so violent and nobody notices...
Also, he never kills people from his immediate surroundings. He kills this one guy who then conveniently leaves for London (I never thought you could just talk on the answering machine and nobody would notice it's a different voice -.-), but the rest are all casual acquaintances, hookers and strangers. The only person who is close to him is his secretary, and he spares her. Which of course, if he had killed her, he (and we) would have noticed that it wasn't real since she would have showed up the other day.
I must admit, at first I was disappointed. That is, while I was watching. I wanted to see a movie about a serial killer, I wanted to get a glimpse of his psyche, of his insane mind, I wanted to see how the brain of a serial killer works. But it never happened. It was all just yuppie-life and sudden outbursts of violence. But now, with the end, it's all just so brilliant. Wow... o.o.
let's look at it from a psychiatric pov - a hardcore psychopath. yes, the psychopath is forced to fit in, and he certainly does have a hard time or two with that. but he's not forced to "try to be better than anybody else", because that's his most natural modus operandi. (of course, he has his own ways to attain that.) a psychopath is nothing but ego, an amoral humaniod. his world revolves around power, control and cheap thrill.
cheating, lies and manipulation as means of power and control.
the emotional landscape of the psychopath is a barren flatland. and so he is a sensation seeker, a thrill seeker in order to feel anything at all. and that's where the seemingly idiosyncratic, irrational "sudden outbursts" (as you say) come in. be it drink, drugs, perverted sex, violence, you name it.. occasionally even murder.
these are the psychopath's real element. and they are not readily psychologically understandible, because the true psychopath has a peculiar psychology. they are seemingly in sharp contrast with the public "persona" of the individual. only seemingly, because the 'public persona' of the psychopath is nothing more than a mask, a human mimicry.
bummer, the last time i saw it must be some year ago or so and i can't recall it that vividly. to be honest, the first time i saw it, it didn't occur to me that it might all be just in his imagination. (though, it did puzzle me when the layer said he had dined with the victim twice. i must have just shrugged it off; probably wasn't in the mood to analyze it.) and when they replayed it, i never paid too much attention - i usually just had it playing in the background while i was doing something else and saw only bits and pieces. which i now regret, cause now that you mention.. you may be right. i think i should see it again.
in any case, i like to think of the movie as a farce of the semi-psychopathic American mind. though it seems it is symbolicaly multilayered. "He's probably just as boring as everybody thinks he is, but in his head he becomes this man for all seasons." - that may be an excellent allusion to another trait of human mind, one that is notably exaggerated in the psychopath.. severly distorted self-image.
Finally! I kept forgetting that I wanted to answer this! ^_^;
Hm yes. You're definitely right with your definition of a psychopath and it also fits Patrick Bateman mostly. However, this only fits up to the, let's say, last fifth of the movie when suddenly things stop making sense. Of course, it could be his warped mind seeing things like this, assuming he's not receiving the attention he deserves. After all, the story is narrated through his eyes, so we only have his limited view, of course.
What I find scary but also fascinating is that this narrator called Bateman tells us everything about his life, every stupid useless fact he can think of. Which face scrub he uses, how many sit-ups he can do. Stuff like that. But when we WANT to know what's going in his strange little head, then the voice-over keeps its persistent silence and we're left behind, puzzled and horrified. I thought that was really interesting.
I hope you get a chance to see it again soon and then I'd very much like to hear your opinion on the possibility of it not being real! ^_^
I've yet to meet a person who has not been befuddled by that movie.
People have loved it, yes, but no one understands it.
You know, unlike me, who knows *every* little thing about it. */sarcasm*
Honestly, it's one of the weirdest movies I've ever seen, but in all honesty, my opinion is this: He was nuttier than a fruitcake. And that's all there is to that XD
(I typed up a very detailed answer in another comment, if you want to read it and add your two cents! Here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/silversolitaire/814013.html?thread=1247933#t1247933).)
Actually, I think about 90% of the movie takes place in his warped imagination.
I mean... it's weird, trying to describe it, but I think he imagines it all because he's stuck in this upper-class idiocy, and he's bored, and he wants to be "different" or whatever, but personally, I think it's all in his head.
So, like, unless he's sitting talking to his friends, I think it's all fake.
Yeah ^_^ (and this was written BEFORE reading your reply, which I'm about to do now)
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Date: 2003-08-01 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-01 06:26 pm (UTC)plus i liked the interiors and the actor..
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 03:52 am (UTC)Do not read any further if you haven't seen the movie yet and don't want to get spoiled!
Is it real? Did it all just happen in his head? Is he just having all these violent fantasies while he's forced to live a life of "fitting in" and trying to be better than anybody else? This is also what's confusing me so much.
The more I think about it, the more it clears up for me. I mean, that DOES make sense, since he often so openly committed his crimes and nobody ever says anything. Like when he drags the bodybag through the squeegee clean foyer of his elegant apartment, leaving a long trail of blood. That's not very clandestine, considering he just killed a colleague AND later has a detective on his ass who definitely would have found out about it and yet it's never mentioned again.
I've heard other people say that in his society people would rather let you get away with murder... multiple... gruesome...excessively violent murder... than acknowledge someone is breaking the rule or acting against the norm. Somehow I find that hard to believe. So maybe they'd ignore minor offences, but NObody would just shrug off such a serial killer's confession as a joke o.o. And certainly, that lawyer had to reason to cover him by saying he had dined with the victim twice in London.
If you think about it, his delusion is pretty appartent. Like when he freaks over these business cards. I mean, excuse me! They all look exactly the same! Okay, this one has a little different shade of white, the other one's got a structure, but GEEZE! They're all exactly the same! And yet they act as if whoever shows his card next has a better one, something that's a lot more elegant and impressive! *rolls eyes* And they all read "Vice President" XD. Oh! And of course all the threats he says to people and nobody ever hears! "You're a fucking ugly bitch and I want to stab you to death and play around with your blood." So, yeah, maybe she didn't hear him, but somehow this is a rather risky thing to say! And he says it all the time in all sorts of situations and nobody ever really reacts to it!
Also, did you notice how everybody kind of ignores Bateman? They don't know his name or they confuse him with someone else and every time someone talks about Bateman they say he's the lamest, most ordinary and boring person they've ever met. However, the Bateman we get to know in the movie is suave, handsome, fit, fascinating, slick... who could ever say he was ordinary? So that too makes me think that he's probably imagining this all. He's probably just as boring as everybody thinks he is (look at his friends! Apart from Price they're all dorks!), but in his head he becomes this man for all seasons.
I've also read that in the novel (which I'm kinda reluctant to read) the violence is a lot more graphic and the reader is left with a feeling of horror and disgust since Bateman doesn't offer any justification or motivation for his actions. Unlike in the movie where Christian Bale perfectly portrayed all these pent up emotion and frustration of always having to be self-controlled. But in the book you never get to know this, so it makes even more sense why he's so violent and nobody notices...
Also, he never kills people from his immediate surroundings. He kills this one guy who then conveniently leaves for London (I never thought you could just talk on the answering machine and nobody would notice it's a different voice -.-), but the rest are all casual acquaintances, hookers and strangers. The only person who is close to him is his secretary, and he spares her. Which of course, if he had killed her, he (and we) would have noticed that it wasn't real since she would have showed up the other day.
I must admit, at first I was disappointed. That is, while I was watching. I wanted to see a movie about a serial killer, I wanted to get a glimpse of his psyche, of his insane mind, I wanted to see how the brain of a serial killer works. But it never happened. It was all just yuppie-life and sudden outbursts of violence. But now, with the end, it's all just so brilliant. Wow... o.o.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 05:28 am (UTC)- cheating, lies and manipulation as means of power and control.
- the emotional landscape of the psychopath is a barren flatland. and so he is a sensation seeker, a thrill seeker in order to feel anything at all. and that's where the seemingly idiosyncratic, irrational "sudden outbursts" (as you say) come in. be it drink, drugs, perverted sex, violence, you name it.. occasionally even murder.
these are the psychopath's real element. and they are not readily psychologically understandible, because the true psychopath has a peculiar psychology. they are seemingly in sharp contrast with the public "persona" of the individual. only seemingly, because the 'public persona' of the psychopath is nothing more than a mask, a human mimicry.bummer, the last time i saw it must be some year ago or so and i can't recall it that vividly. to be honest, the first time i saw it, it didn't occur to me that it might all be just in his imagination. (though, it did puzzle me when the layer said he had dined with the victim twice. i must have just shrugged it off; probably wasn't in the mood to analyze it.) and when they replayed it, i never paid too much attention - i usually just had it playing in the background while i was doing something else and saw only bits and pieces. which i now regret, cause now that you mention.. you may be right.
i think i should see it again.
in any case, i like to think of the movie as a farce of the semi-psychopathic American mind.
though it seems it is symbolicaly multilayered. "He's probably just as boring as everybody thinks he is, but in his head he becomes this man for all seasons." - that may be an excellent allusion to another trait of human mind, one that is notably exaggerated in the psychopath.. severly distorted self-image.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-05 04:38 am (UTC)Hm yes. You're definitely right with your definition of a psychopath and it also fits Patrick Bateman mostly. However, this only fits up to the, let's say, last fifth of the movie when suddenly things stop making sense. Of course, it could be his warped mind seeing things like this, assuming he's not receiving the attention he deserves. After all, the story is narrated through his eyes, so we only have his limited view, of course.
What I find scary but also fascinating is that this narrator called Bateman tells us everything about his life, every stupid useless fact he can think of. Which face scrub he uses, how many sit-ups he can do. Stuff like that. But when we WANT to know what's going in his strange little head, then the voice-over keeps its persistent silence and we're left behind, puzzled and horrified. I thought that was really interesting.
I hope you get a chance to see it again soon and then I'd very much like to hear your opinion on the possibility of it not being real! ^_^
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 02:26 am (UTC)People have loved it, yes, but no one understands it.
You know, unlike me, who knows *every* little thing about it. */sarcasm*
Honestly, it's one of the weirdest movies I've ever seen, but in all honesty, my opinion is this: He was nuttier than a fruitcake. And that's all there is to that XD
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 03:54 am (UTC)So, do you think it's real? O.o; *ish confused*
(I typed up a very detailed answer in another comment, if you want to read it and add your two cents! Here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/silversolitaire/814013.html?thread=1247933#t1247933).)
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 02:38 pm (UTC)I mean... it's weird, trying to describe it, but I think he imagines it all because he's stuck in this upper-class idiocy, and he's bored, and he wants to be "different" or whatever, but personally, I think it's all in his head.
So, like, unless he's sitting talking to his friends, I think it's all fake.
Yeah ^_^ (and this was written BEFORE reading your reply, which I'm about to do now)